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Who was returned by our border guards at the airport?
The question is, what interests you, have there been cases when tourists were not allowed to leave at the Boryspil airport on whom a trial was initiated? We have a case where Vodokanal filed a lawsuit, a cheap matter, but still. Can there be problems on departure?
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Answers • 33
Restriction of the right to travel abroad today can be carried out ONLY ON THE BASIS OF A COURT DECISION. This is provided for by the Laws of Ukraine "On the Executive Service", "On the State Border Service", "On the Procedure for Entry/Exit from/to Ukraine" and a number of others. This means that the mere fact of filing a claim against you, the subject of which is property claims, cannot serve as a basis for "non-release".
Of course, there is also the Decree of the President dated 08.10.2009 "On measures to ensure stability in the banking system", which provides for a temporary refusal to travel abroad for persons who have repaid accounts payable to the bank. And, as far as I know, by the end of 2009, there were about 600 such lucky ones who were not released. But, from a legal point of view, the Decree of the President cannot serve as a basis for a travel ban. This procedure is regulated only by the Law, and only on the basis of the DECISION of the COURT.
Of course, there is also the Decree of the President dated 08.10.2009 "On measures to ensure stability in the banking system", which provides for a temporary refusal to travel abroad for persons who have repaid accounts payable to the bank. And, as far as I know, by the end of 2009, there were about 600 such lucky ones who were not released. But, from a legal point of view, the Decree of the President cannot serve as a basis for a travel ban. This procedure is regulated only by the Law, and only on the basis of the DECISION of the COURT.
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5.5
answered 14 years ago
Unfortunately, as long as you prove to our border guards that the Decree of the President cannot serve as a basis for a ban on departure, the plane will fly away ... (((
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1.5
answered 14 years ago
to orhideya 21: It is not worth discussing this with our border guards (they are not able to comprehend these questions with their minds). All this is a question of the quality of normative acts adopted in our country (when decrees contradict laws, etc.).
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1.5
answered 14 years ago
But how do customs officers calculate such lucky ones in practice? Is there an electronic register of "debtors"? :) And everyone is compared? :)
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answered 14 years ago
Back in 2008, the Ministry of Justice and the Customs Service developed a procedure for restricting the travel abroad of those persons who have outstanding debt obligations (letter dated 27.05.2008 No. 25-32/463). The release process looks like this:
1. The court decision on the temporary restriction of travel abroad of a particular debtor is sent to the enforcement service.
2. The executive service, the next day after receiving such a decision, sends a copy of it to the State Customs Service.
3. The customs service accepts this decision of the court for execution. Customs officers "put under control" such debtors (special information processing departments are engaged in this).
When a person presents a passport at the border, the customs service informs him of the reasons why he is forbidden to leave - alimony, loan obligations, etc.
In fact, this procedure is rather imperfect and there is talk that a single database would be developed specifically for "credit debtors". So that customs officers can make an online request to the credit bureau and receive information - is there a loan. debt and for what amount, is there a temporary ban on leaving. So everything is ahead, comrades.
1. The court decision on the temporary restriction of travel abroad of a particular debtor is sent to the enforcement service.
2. The executive service, the next day after receiving such a decision, sends a copy of it to the State Customs Service.
3. The customs service accepts this decision of the court for execution. Customs officers "put under control" such debtors (special information processing departments are engaged in this).
When a person presents a passport at the border, the customs service informs him of the reasons why he is forbidden to leave - alimony, loan obligations, etc.
In fact, this procedure is rather imperfect and there is talk that a single database would be developed specifically for "credit debtors". So that customs officers can make an online request to the credit bureau and receive information - is there a loan. debt and for what amount, is there a temporary ban on leaving. So everything is ahead, comrades.
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1
answered 14 years ago
Weird question. If you have debts for alimony, loans, etc., the party to whom you owe money (ex-spouse, bank, credit institution, etc.) file a lawsuit with a demand to recover the amount of debt from you, and as security for the claim, they ask the court temporarily restrict your travel abroad. The court adopts a ruling on temporary restriction of exit. Or, based on the results of the final consideration of the case, the court makes a decision, which, in particular, contains the following paragraph - until the debt is repaid - to temporarily restrict travel.
It seems to me that you should at least know that a lawsuit has been filed against you, proceedings are underway, some decisions are being made (including travel restrictions). You are notified by subpoenas, you must attend court hearings, and you have the right to appeal against court decisions on temporary travel restrictions.
Well, taking into account the effect of the Presidential Decree of 08.10.2009, if you have accounts payable, you should be prepared for the fact that at the border crossing point you may not be released as a debtor without any court decision.
Here, rely on your intuition :)))
It seems to me that you should at least know that a lawsuit has been filed against you, proceedings are underway, some decisions are being made (including travel restrictions). You are notified by subpoenas, you must attend court hearings, and you have the right to appeal against court decisions on temporary travel restrictions.
Well, taking into account the effect of the Presidential Decree of 08.10.2009, if you have accounts payable, you should be prepared for the fact that at the border crossing point you may not be released as a debtor without any court decision.
Here, rely on your intuition :)))
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answered 14 years ago
Dear farewell! You didn't understand the question! It’s not that viktor75 didn’t know that he was personally restricted from leaving, because there is a court decision on alimony (for example)! The question is whether the customs (and how, since there is no registry) knows that this is viktor75, and not viktor76, and viktor77 is not a malicious alimony! How do customs officers calculate in practice?
Here you write (quote): "When a person presents a passport at the border, the customs service tells him the reasons why he is forbidden to leave"! How do they know if there is no electronic registry? Is it intuitive?
Here you write (quote): "When a person presents a passport at the border, the customs service tells him the reasons why he is forbidden to leave"! How do they know if there is no electronic registry? Is it intuitive?
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answered 14 years ago
Dear Matthew! Question victor 75 did not cause me any difficulties in understanding.
I guess that not all visitors of Turpravda have a legal education, but in my opinion it was YOU in this thread of discussion that I answered in detail HOW the customs officers carry out the procedure for a temporary ban on leaving (there is even a link to the letter, if you look carefully, huh?) By the way, you can find and read it (you see, it is written more clearly there). And one more thing - I think, even if you have never seen a court decision, it is not difficult to guess that the court decision that comes to the customs officers contains the full name, identification data of the debtor, etc.
So, dear Matveika, you have difficulties in understanding (sorry for annoying comment ):)))
I guess that not all visitors of Turpravda have a legal education, but in my opinion it was YOU in this thread of discussion that I answered in detail HOW the customs officers carry out the procedure for a temporary ban on leaving (there is even a link to the letter, if you look carefully, huh?) By the way, you can find and read it (you see, it is written more clearly there). And one more thing - I think, even if you have never seen a court decision, it is not difficult to guess that the court decision that comes to the customs officers contains the full name, identification data of the debtor, etc.
So, dear Matveika, you have difficulties in understanding (sorry for annoying comment ):)))
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½
answered 14 years ago
And yet, to make it more clear - if there is an accounts payable to the bank and a civil claim has been filed against you to repay it, then be prepared for a possible ban on leaving until the end of the consideration of the case on the merits. Information to customs officers (border guards) can be provided by the plaintiff (bank, credit / financial institution) or the executive service. At the same time, referring to the Decree of the President. Therefore, they are currently trying to recognize this Decree as illegal (the corresponding submission was sent by people's deputies to the Constitutional Court).
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2
answered 14 years ago
Thanks for the venomous response, dear farewell! Unfortunately, I constantly see the decisions of our courts, in which sometimes not only grammatical errors and omissions abound in abundance, but also a lot of things are omitted. The masterpiece in my collection of court decisions is the decision of the military court, which, together with the mandatory header and details, takes up half a page of A4 sheet - a lot of useful information :). In addition, I know that some banks themselves cook up "court decisions" and run into naive creditors - like there was a court without you and they were charged. So paperwork doesn't count. I'm interested in something else (if you don't understand) - how is sorting done at customs? How to distinguish the debtor from the mass of people? Are the decisions of the courts sorted out manually? :) They ask - is it you? :) Do not make me laugh....
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answered 14 years ago
to Matveika: You know, your "speeches" cause me some bewilderment:(((
Here, honestly (no offense and "poisonous answers" addressed to you). Are you interested in the technical side of things? How does a border guard (customs officer), checking the passport of citizen "A" and putting a stamp in his passport on crossing the border, come to the conclusion that he has a debtor who is temporarily restricted from traveling abroad? Well, for the third time I will refer to the letter of the Ministry of Justice and the Border Service dated May 27, 2008. If you nevertheless read it, you could not help but notice the phrase (written in black and white) - "In the state border service, the control of persons (debtors ), who, according to court decisions, are temporarily restricted from traveling abroad of Ukraine, is being prepared by the Separate Risk Management Center of the State
of the Border Guard Service (phone 044 239 85 86) and is directly carried out by the Separate Data Processing Department of the Central Administration of GAIS "Gart" of the State Border Service (phone 044 239 84 36)".
Not being a customs and border service employee (I took the liberty :))), I can assume that the processed information on debtors goes to the border guards sitting at the border posts.
Here, honestly (no offense and "poisonous answers" addressed to you). Are you interested in the technical side of things? How does a border guard (customs officer), checking the passport of citizen "A" and putting a stamp in his passport on crossing the border, come to the conclusion that he has a debtor who is temporarily restricted from traveling abroad? Well, for the third time I will refer to the letter of the Ministry of Justice and the Border Service dated May 27, 2008. If you nevertheless read it, you could not help but notice the phrase (written in black and white) - "In the state border service, the control of persons (debtors ), who, according to court decisions, are temporarily restricted from traveling abroad of Ukraine, is being prepared by the Separate Risk Management Center of the State
of the Border Guard Service (phone 044 239 85 86) and is directly carried out by the Separate Data Processing Department of the Central Administration of GAIS "Gart" of the State Border Service (phone 044 239 84 36)".
Not being a customs and border service employee (I took the liberty :))), I can assume that the processed information on debtors goes to the border guards sitting at the border posts.
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answered 14 years ago
Excuse me, I don’t know in what form this information comes to them - or in front of each border guard there is a sheet with the full name and identification data of the debtors or in another way - but they have it. You do not ask, but how is it that the persons who gave a written undertaking not to leave (a measure of restraint) or the persons who are on the wanted list are known to policemen, border guards, customs officers. That when checking their documents, and if there are any suspicions (doubts) about their identity, they are asked to linger, etc.
It seems to me that all this is very clear and does not cause any difficulties.
It seems to me that all this is very clear and does not cause any difficulties.
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2.5
answered 14 years ago
The border guards have long had a unified system for monitoring and recording movement across the border. A fairly complex system that combines all border crossing points into a single network. Physically, everything is done very simply. The passport is rolled through the reader with the bottom strip of the first page. All the basic data is there, the intersection is recorded in the database and the database is checked for restrictions. The border guard looks at the monitor and then looks at you in surprise, pulling a pistol from its holster.
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answered 14 years ago
And they are entered into the database by pens by the operators of the GAIS Garth CPU
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answered 14 years ago
Well, finally... Thank you HotLine! Especially at the expense of the holster! :) If indeed the device for reading from the passport is connected to the base, which is filled in by the operators of the GAIS "Gart" CPU and everything is displayed on the monitor: "Akhtung! Enemy!", Then it's understandable ... Because to read about a piece of paper (quote: ".. .sheet with full name and identification data of debtors or in any other way ..") with a list of all debtors :) But, if automation has achieved this....!
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answered 14 years ago
To farewell. Our discussion confirms only one thing: the simplest questions are the most difficult. It's a waste of time to adopt a law, but to implement it is a whole hassle ... that's why they work in our country - no one is satisfied. Your maxim: "You don't ask, how is it that the persons who gave a written undertaking not to leave (a preventive measure) or the persons who are wanted are known to policemen, border guards, customs officers." I do not ask just because it is not a topic of discussion. at the same time, I know how they are "looking for" ... One prosecutor I know could not find the dude "wanted" who lived with him in the same entrance for many years. So this is only speculation on the topic of the search, and this topic has nothing to do, since there is no search here, but something completely different! How to stand out from the crowd? If everything is automated, I keep silent.... although I allow options... :) Everything is possible in our country!
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answered 14 years ago
And about the letter (sent for the third time - can not be ignored again :)) So - sorry for the boredom (probably a professional deformity already), but the law and some letter, even a letter from the Ministry of Justice and the Border Service from 27.05.2008. Wow!) - two big differences.
The Ministry of Justice constantly points out that: Establishment of legal norms by letters (which are official correspondence and have only explanatory, informational nature and should not establish legal norms) - is a violation of the legislation on state registration of normative legal acts. In connection with this, they are subject to immediate response from the places of application and cancellation.
That's right - in general, in principle! :)
The Ministry of Justice constantly points out that: Establishment of legal norms by letters (which are official correspondence and have only explanatory, informational nature and should not establish legal norms) - is a violation of the legislation on state registration of normative legal acts. In connection with this, they are subject to immediate response from the places of application and cancellation.
That's right - in general, in principle! :)
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answered 14 years ago
Interesting. By the order of the Cabinet of Ministers of June 17, 2009 N 711-r approved the Concept
development of the State information system of registration of individuals and their documentation. The Unified State Automated Passport System (EDAPS) was to become an important part of the general system of registration of natural persons. Work related to the establishment of EDAPS was started in 1996:) It is noted: Due to insufficient budget funding! decision on
The introduction of a passport-card was not accepted, in connection with which the registration of individuals with the use of software and hardware EDAPS is not carried out. !!
:) Now the money from the budget goes to the creation of another EDAPS - to create another -DIS (State Information System for Registration of Individuals and their documentation) ... This is also ... just information about the thoughts :)
development of the State information system of registration of individuals and their documentation. The Unified State Automated Passport System (EDAPS) was to become an important part of the general system of registration of natural persons. Work related to the establishment of EDAPS was started in 1996:) It is noted: Due to insufficient budget funding! decision on
The introduction of a passport-card was not accepted, in connection with which the registration of individuals with the use of software and hardware EDAPS is not carried out. !!
:) Now the money from the budget goes to the creation of another EDAPS - to create another -DIS (State Information System for Registration of Individuals and their documentation) ... This is also ... just information about the thoughts :)
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answered 14 years ago
to Matveika; I just want to warn you - this is my last message on the branch. First, I have always been "touched" by the ability of visitors to Turpravda, and in particular those who answer questions, to turn a discussion into a quarrel, to clarify the relationship, to prove some of their "professionalism". I want to note that I did NOT DISCUSS with you about the law (and what law did you pay attention to, eh ???), I only answered the question ira_podoroji about "possible problems with departure ", as well as the question viktor75.
Secondly, you have already turned Turpravda almost into a legal forum. I think few people are interested in reading all the quotes from the regulations that you wrote in your last three posts. All these passages did you address to WHOM ???; and the second question - WHY ??? Just stumble on the topic "what kind of country we have, continuous lawlessness, etc., etc. "
Thirdly, as a lawyer, I cannot leave without comment the phrase "Establishing legal norms by letters (which are official correspondence and have only explanatory, informational nature and should not establish legal norms) ..." (hereinafter) . you read the letter (4 !!! times) you would notice that it does NOT have ANY NEW LEGAL REGULATIONS
Secondly, you have already turned Turpravda almost into a legal forum. I think few people are interested in reading all the quotes from the regulations that you wrote in your last three posts. All these passages did you address to WHOM ???; and the second question - WHY ??? Just stumble on the topic "what kind of country we have, continuous lawlessness, etc., etc. "
Thirdly, as a lawyer, I cannot leave without comment the phrase "Establishing legal norms by letters (which are official correspondence and have only explanatory, informational nature and should not establish legal norms) ..." (hereinafter) . you read the letter (4 !!! times) you would notice that it does NOT have ANY NEW LEGAL REGULATIONS
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answered 14 years ago
establishes, falls under the action of paragraphs. d) item 3.4. Order of the Ministry of Justice of Ukraine of April 12, 2005 № 34/5 On the procedure for state registration of norms and rights. acts, namely - aimed at implementing the decisions of higher bodies - Presidential Decree "On additional measures to improve the efficiency of execution of court decisions " of 24.03.2008 N 261/2008, only establishes the procedure for interaction between the executive service and border service AND IS NOT SUBJECT TO STATE REGISTRATION! There is no sedition in this letter and there is no reason to withdraw it (declare it illegal)!
And finally, HELLO! - You finally understood the way in which the detention of "borzhik" at border posts takes place.
P.S. Thanks to HotLine for the figurative example "with a holster".
All the best!!!
And finally, HELLO! - You finally understood the way in which the detention of "borzhik" at border posts takes place.
P.S. Thanks to HotLine for the figurative example "with a holster".
All the best!!!
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answered 14 years ago
I didn't understand... If someone had been detained and shared his experience... Otherwise, I didn't understand, dear farewell! There was no squabbling ... just for 2 lawyers - 3 opinions! Ordinary situation! I think all this does not work yet (yet)!
If otherwise, respond home deployed! :) Ah!
If otherwise, respond home deployed! :) Ah!
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answered 14 years ago
I took a loan from a bank 2 years ago. Letters came from the bank, such as a court and the exit from Ukraine was forbidden. Now I want to fly abroad, but I don’t know where to find this list of debtors. In January I went to Russia, there were no problems at customs.
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½
answered 14 years ago
To Viko95! Very interesting! I think there will be no problems .... we like to declare something loudly, but in reality ...... bring down the bag - then we'll figure it out! :) Tell me how it was!
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answered 14 years ago
At present, the Kredit-Kapital company is sending out letters threatening to restrict travel abroad, for some fictitious debts it bought from the TV cameraman Volya, although the latter does not confirm the debt. Letters with threats come without signatures and seals. However, on the Internet you can read about the decisions of the Kyiv court in favor of this company without the participation of the defendants. What can lawyers advise in order to secure travel abroad?
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answered 13 years ago
Please excuse my personal opinion. Has anyone read the decisions of our courts? That patronymic will be confused, then the code, to the address ... A piece of paper! Writs of execution are also a disgrace. There are millions of decisions in Ukraine - the customs officer is not able to sort through everything, even in electronic form. Until they introduce passports with biometric data and special. devices at customs with their reading, all this seems doubtful to me. I do not persuade anyone to take risks, sometimes they suddenly catch someone (apparently because someone snitched), but these are "famous", and not ordinary inhabitants. I think if no one snitchs, then there is a chance! Eh! If someone confirmed that it was wrapped!
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answered 13 years ago
Good afternoon. I read the forum and understand how close all this is to me. To date, I have overdue loan obligations in Alfa Bank. offered a job in Russia. I’m thinking of going there and I’m very worried whether they will let me through. I was looking for lists of non-exit debtors on the Internet, but I didn’t find anything, so I’ll visit. I'll let you know the result. I hope everything goes smoothly, otherwise I won’t be able to pay off the consumer loan in our country, I can’t find a decent job.
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answered 13 years ago
Check whether you are not included in the list of persons whose right to leave Ukraine is limited is possible in the Separate Risk Management Center of the State Border Guard Service of Ukraine (tel. 8.044.239.85.86) and directly in the Separate Data Processing Department of the State Tax Inspectorate "Gart" Border Guard Service of Ukraine (Tel. 8.044.239.84.36). They receive information from the internal affairs bodies, which must send a certified copy of the court ruling on the temporary restriction of the debtor's right to leave Ukraine to the ADPS of Ukraine (Kyiv, Volodymyrska Street, 26).
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answered 13 years ago
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